Jill Silman Chapman is a Senior Performance Consultant with Insperity Traditional Employment Solutions. She holds a bachelor’s degree in Journalism from The University of Texas at Austin, a master’s degree in HR Management from Tarleton State University, SPHR and SHRM-SCP certifications, and has 25+ years' experience in the HR and recruiting industry. Ms. Chapman partners with clients in order to recruit and train staff with an emphasis on productivity and performance. Through presentations, webinars and podcasts, she helps businesses find the best talent with the latest in recruitment strategy, talent attraction methods and technology. Ms. Chapman has been quoted as a business expert in such media outlets as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times and CBS MarketWatch, and has worked with such clients as Marriott, Fox Sports, Monster.com and HR.com.
Engineering background with a 25-year track record in Infrastructure design, E-commerce platforms, big data technologies, network security, supply chain risk, and program management.
RecruiterCast – Episode 1 Dave Webb: 0:06 I’m Dave Webb and you’re listening to RecruiterCast. On this episode, we’re going to tackle the role of recruiting in modern business. We have not just one guest, but two guests to help us discuss modern recruitment. David Steele who clocks in with over two decades of experience in the HR staffing world helps us answer questions like why you should even use a staffing firm. David Steele: 0:25 A good staffing firm will find the right balance in the relationship for level communications, preferences for contact and obviously only bringing vetted talent to their hiring managers. Dave Webb: 0:37 We’re also going to be talking to senior performance consultant for Insperity recruiting services, Jill Chapman, who will conversely answer what can happen when you don’t use a staffing firm. Jill Chapman: 0:47 When you think of the cost of an empty seat at your organization, when you think about the cost of making a bad hire at your organization, that number quickly could eclipse what that placement fee might be with your recruiting services firm. Dave Webb: 1:02 These two seasoned pros are here to help us navigate the world of modern day recruiting and answer your questions. Dave Webb: 1:10 I’m Dave Webb. CEO and co-founder of BrightMove. For over 25 years, my job has been to learn all of the ins and outs of the recruiting industry and then write the software that makes it happen. I know who to talk to and what to ask them. We have the information that you cannot get anywhere else. So, get ready to learn the secrets that will give you an advantage as a recruiter, job seeker, or business owner. It’s time for RecruiterCast. Advertisement: 1:40 RecruiterCast is brought to you by BrightMove, the most innovative applicant tracking system built with the recruiter and candidate in mind. Learn more at Brightmove.com. Dave Webb: 1:52 Hey everyone, welcome to RecruiterCast. Let’s jump right in and meet our two guests. First up is David Steele. David, tell us a little bit about yourself. David Steele: 2:00 Sure, David, thank you. So, I started my IT career working as a system administrator helping small businesses modernize their systems and becoming web enabled at the start of the dot com boom in the mid-nineties. So, if that kinda gives you a reference point of where I’m coming from, um, to your point, since then I’ve joined a large financial services firm and have experienced a broad range of opportunities in network engineering, software development, database design, digital commerce, program management, information security, just to kinda scratch the surface. So, it’s been a fun and interesting time for me. Dave Webb: 2:35 Thanks David. We’re also lucky enough to have Jill Chapman with us today. Jill is responsible for delivering learning at Insperity. This includes onboarding new employees, presenting the latest in recruitment strategy, and talent attraction and technology. Jill, lets jump right in. as someone whose been in account management for decades, how do you continue to provide value in a marketplace full of large and small staffing firms both personally and in your corporate roll? Jill Chapman: 3:03 Well it’s been really interesting to watch the industry morph over the many years I’ve been a part of this industry from almost an idea that one size fits all - a kind of cookie cutter approach to the marketplace in providing the same services robotically over and over and over again – to a place now where I think we said that we understand that we have to be able to tailor our efforts to what that company needs in the moment that company needs it. I like to say with our own organization that we meet our clients where they are and walk alongside them to provide them whatever they need when they need it. So, that may be a full on, you know, full recruiting effort or it might be taking what we do and bundling it and providing the pieces and parts of that service as the client has need. Because as you know companies continue to grow, starting from that start-up or small business to medium size business to enterprise, you know their needs change. And so to be able to provide what they need in those particular stages of growth and those particular moments and understanding what’s different about each of those stages, I think that’s where the value lies in the recruiting industry and being able to help them get to whatever that next level might be with whatever tools, techniques, products and services that an organization needs in that very moment. Dave Webb: 4:28 Nice. Thanks Jill. So, David, I think the question on everybody’s mind, the real obvious one, is why can’t you just hire people yourself? Why do you need a staffing company’s help? David Steele: 4:40 I simply don’t have the time in my day job to do the proper due diligence it takes to find and vet new hires, right. There are several reasons too, right, skill set. Professional recruiters and their firms make that their craft, and I can’t replicate that, nor would I want to. It takes a certain level of experience respective to build a network, mine that network for talent, broker the right relationships, read people, and finding the right fit for job seekers and the appropriate job opportunity is really an art and that’s just not, not in my skill- set. Now mention network, I think that’s really key as well, because staffing firms have typically built their network of relationships with hiring firms, job seekers over a long period of time, right? And that network allows the staffing firms to have a good pulse on what’s happening with-in the IT industry or whatever industry their servicing and the available talent in the marketplace. So, hiring managers greatly benefit from that because it’s built in, I don’t have to replicate it. There’s a lot of other factors, but those are the primary ones, right? I mean budgets, head count planning, all that can play in as we previously mentioned. Dave Webb: 5:46 So, the basis for the staffing economy has just been declared by Mr. Steele, and hiring managers need the help of staffing companies to survive. Now, if you’re a hiring manager who hasn’t engaged with a staffing company yet, you need to because they give you so many advantages. They help save you time and money and get the best candidate in the seat as fast as possible. Let’s let Jill tell us how to choose a good staffing company based on her experience. Jill Chapman: 6:13 Any organization is really the sum total of the people who are working there, right? Like that’s what makes the difference between my company and your company, it’s the people we’ve employed to work for so that personality, that character of the business, that is because of the people who work there. So, I think it is a very important component, if not the most important component, to understand the leadership, the management, the people, the practices, the policies, but it’s all around the people who work at those organizations. But I do think that there are things that beyond that chemistry or that culture fit, working with a staffing firm that a client needs to be thinking about. You know, some of the things they need to look for as they begin to explore one company versus another and I think that it has a lot to do with their practices, you know once you get beyond that people part and whose involved, it’s the practices and the policies they bring to the table. So, making sure it’s an organization that does something more than just look at the job boards, right? The best recruiters are those that are going to participate in networking groups, or a user group if there’s certain technologies that they are involved with, they’re going to use additional tools and technologies beyond a job board, they’re going to use social media, they’re going to do a lot of creative things to be able to identify the talent. So, if I was investigating a firm as to whether or not I wanted to do business with them, I would certainly look at, you know, what are some of the tools they use beyond the obvious job boards, you know, how is it that they build their candidate database? You know, our organization is one that really treats our searches like a corporate search, so we’re going back to the well for every search and really working on behalf of the client, as opposed to being kind of in this middle ground with the candidate and the clients. But even yet, even though we’re starting from scratch with every opportunity that we’re working, we still have built a significant database, so I would want to know that the recruiting firm that I’m going to engage with has the ability to create a robust and quality candidate database. I’d also want to make sure that they’re using technology we talked about, you know, beyond the job boards but really making good use of technology, that’s something that I would want to insist upon in a recruiting partner. And then, when you think about the people part of it a little bit more, I’d want to make sure that they invest in their people, that their recruiters are those have an ear to the ground, knowing what’s going on, that are, you know, up to date, if you will, with what’s going on in the marketplace, what’s going on in industry, those kind of recruiters that are curious and want to stay connected to their clients their client company industries and that sort of thing, so I would really look at the investment that they make not only in tools and technology, but also in the people that work for the organization. Dave Webb: 9:10 Okay, So David, I have to ask you this question from another angle. You know, what would your daily job look like if you did have to hire your own people and staffing companies weren’t even an option to help you out? David Steele: 9:22 My day was pretty much booked up in thirty-minute increments all day every day, right? So, um, to get lunch was a good day, and time is that critical factor, so if I had to perform all the necessary due diligence myself for hiring a new person, I’m guessing it would take up at least 50 percent of my day, to do it right, right? I’d have to reframe my own skill sets to do it properly and do be quite honest, it just wouldn’t be fun for me. Dave Webb: 9:47 That’s a great point, you might be put into a position where you’re not doing what you’re good at and what you like to do and then that falls into the, um, the retention and satisfaction levels of the company’s current employee base and them maybe you’re on the market again because you’re not you know, out there doing what you love. David Steele 10:09 I’m not doing my core function. Dave Webb: 10:10 Right. So, you have the inefficiencies of not being as good at it as a recruiter and a professional staffing firm and not doing what you really want to be doing anyway. Dave Webb: 10:21 okay, well it sounds like the hiring managers don’t have the time to do the work in the first place, so I guess it’s going to be hard to figure out what type of staffing firm to work with, so Jill, let me ask you, you know, what does your value proposition look like for small and large companies, is it different, is it about the same, and you know, if you’re talking to a hiring manager through the podcast, you know, what would you say to them in helping them choose the right staffing company for their business? Jill Chapman: 10:48 Right. So, back to the first part of that question about the value proposition and does it remain the same if you’re working with a small company versus an enterprise, you know, large organization, and no, it can’t be the same, because in each stage of growth and each size of the organization, needs become very, very different. There is a tipping point where I think oh, maybe after you get larger than 150 employees, a lot of your same concerns you know mirror those of a company that has 300 employees or 3000 employees perhaps, but I do think in those early stages, it is a very different conversation that you’re having with the clients in the organizations versus what happens when it’s a much larger organization. I mean, things like, look, just think about it, you know, if you’re a small company, you have 8, 9, 10 employees, hiring that 11th employee is huge, right? It could change the entire make-up of your organization, it could change the personality of your organization, just with that, that entry of one additional person, and so the way that you look for that person and the things that you’re trying to match to may be very very different than if you’re hiring the 3001st employee. Absolutely the value proposition changes with the size of the organization and how the recruiter has to bob and weave - is the only words I can come up right now with off the top of my head – but the way that that recruiter has to react in concert with the client changes dramatically from a small to a medium size to a large business. I get paid to do a job, I get paid to make widgets, I get paid to do accounting, I get paid to do a lot of things, but I don’t necessarily get paid to be working as a recruiter within my job, right? It’s not something that as a business owner, a hiring manager, that you do all day, every day. So why on earth would you not want to offload that to somebody who does do it all day every day and can cut through, quickly, cut through the chaff to the wheat to be able to present the opportunity along faster, further, just much more quickly, because time is money, right? In today’s economy, time is money, and if you belabor that because it’s an additional thing that you do in addition to all those other things that you do, I can promise you very quickly, probably, that recruiting effort will slip to the back burner. Advertisement: 13:14 RecruiterCast is brought to you by BrightMove. The most innovative applicant tracking system built with the recruiter and candidate in mind. Be sure to check out BrightMove on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn @BrightMove. Be sure to visit us on the web at Brightmove.com Dave Webb: 13:30 Jill, you can’t help every hiring manager in the world, there’s too many of them, there’s just one of you, even the largest companies can’t help everybody, that’s why we have this large economy, there’s businesses that have hiring needs and there’s many different staffing models… So, you know, when you’re trying to pick the hiring manager that you want to work with, what does that person look like? Jill Chapman 13:50 I think the word that I think of most often when I think of a relationship with a hiring manager is the word partner. And really a true partner in the effort, like look, we both have a common goal, right? You need an employee, I want to find you that employee and we want to do this as quickly and as efficiently as possible and so in a perfect world its all about that collaboration, you know, everything runs smooth and and it’s a real partnership, it’s a real win-win-win. Dave Webb: 14:18 Okay, Dave, how about you, what do you think? David Steele: 14:20 So, a good vendor, and I’m going to say a good recruiter, right? A recruiter’s part of a staffing firm, but that’s the level that of relationship that a hiring manager has, right, and so building that personal relationship with the recruiter, and the recruiting firm is critical. Right, you just mentioned, you know, knowing me as a hiring manager, knowing what I want, knowing my company, knowing you know, kind of um our strategic goals, what we do, our company culture, allows you as a recruiter to make the right fit, right? Because sometimes cultural fit is a deal breaker, you can hire the best talent, but if it’s not a personality fit, you know, there’s an issue. So that’s just one example of, of how a recruiter knowing the hiring manager, knowing the firm, can ultimately help make the right match. Dave Webb: 15:10 And then I asked Jill has she ever turned down a hiring manager? Jill Chapman: 15:13 Yeah, so, to your point, have you ever turned somebody down, yes, I have. You know, in my (clears throat) we’re not going to discuss how many years I’ve been in this business, but it’s been a long, a lot of years, and so over the course of those years, absolutely, to either refuse an engagement, or to break-up with a client somewhere down the road, usually it has something to do, I think, with more often than not, some idea around the idea, usually around unrealistic expectations I think. And when you know, there is just no feet touching the ground kind of with the hiring manager, it’s just not gonna work. Dave Webb: 15:52 So Dave, there’s you know, thousands of recruiters listening right now, they’re probably wondering… Somewhere along the way they’ve tried to work with a hiring manager and they haven’t gotten a call back anymore, or maybe the relationship is dead, so you know, if you could give those recruiters some advice, as a hiring manager, what are some of your pet peeves or what are some words of advice that you would like to pass on to them that might help them in their future relationships? David Steele: 16:16 Communications is probably where I get touchy, so you know if a recruiter or a recruiting firm is being pushy and constantly calling me, it’s one of my biggest pet peeves. It’s not that I don’t want to talk to that person or not interested or you know, whatever, it’s just really, you know, be aware that I will make time for the conversation, but it may not be at your convenience, right? So, you know if, if recruiters can understand that, when their building the relationship and understand how they like to be contacted, so for me, I’m fine with a text, right? But other hiring managers may not be, right? But, but if you’ve got a good relationship with me you probably already know these things, but some of the bad experiences I’ve had in the past were you know I’d get ten calls a day from a single person and when I finally do reach them they’re kind of guilting me because I haven’t picked up the phone sooner, and you know, that just puts me off. Dave Webb: 17:14 You know, I just love it when I get answers from two sides of an equation and they all come together with one word and in this case, it’s partnership. And if you treat everybody like an adult, you’re respectful of their time and communication preferences, you do your homework on your candidates, your present the best candidate and the hiring manager acts quickly when the right candidate comes across his or her desk, then that’s just success for everybody and everyone can get back to what they’re doing, whether it’s recruiting or technology and the next time a hire is needed it makes a lot easier for everybody because you know who you can trust. Advertisement: 17:54 be sure to check out RecruiterCast on twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn @recruitercast. Dave Webb: 18:03 Okay, Jill, you know, the.. the unsuspecting player in this whole economy and transaction is the candidate, they’re the product that the staffing company is going out and procuring and moving into the role that the hiring manager is trying to fill. So, I guess as a candidate as a job seeker, tell us a little bit about why they would want to work with a staffing firm instead of going directly to a company that they want to work for and they think is hiring but they might not know for sure. Jill Chapman: 18:32 When I’m most surprised, is when a candidate thinks they can do it on their own, I guess, but there are so many opportunities out there now with so many different staffing services, that to cut that out of the job seeker activities, is really cutting your nose off to spite your face, right? Because they’ll have opportunities for direct hire, they may have opportunities for temporary, or temp to hire, contract, whatever you want to call it, and those are just multiple ways into a full time regular job if that’s what the end game is right? Especially if somebody’s been unemployed for a period of time, I think to be able to work with a recruiter, it gives them an entree, a way to make the human behind the piece of paper and the resume come to life for a hiring manager in a way that you can’t do if you’re just submitting your job through their applicant tracking system or something like that where everybody’s going to kind of look the same, but if you have that voice representing you, and can turn that piece of paper into a real live human being, I think there’s obvious advantages to that so, so the things that can’t be shown on a piece of paper, or can’t be fully explained on a piece of paper, the recruiter can do that, do that for you and provide that door, that open door that might otherwise be shut just because somebody’s looking at a piece of paper, making some assumptions and moving on. Dave Webb: 19:59 So, David, Jill’s told us about all of the reasons why a candidate should consider working with a staffing company and its really a, a very easy decision, there’s so many advantages to it. You know, what would you say as a hiring manager what do you like about candidates coming in from a staffing company versus, you know, someone just dropping by and handing you their resume and you know, as a former contractor, what are your personal experiences with working directly for a company or working as a contractor? David Steele: 20:29 So, you know, this is really interesting, I see a ton of benefit, again, having personally been through this process, and then having hired a number of people through this method. But I’ve hired some of my best talent through staffing firms and via a contract to hire approach, specifically. If an initial interview suggests a good fit, you know, sometimes that doesn’t play out, you know, and ultimately doesn’t prove to be the case, you know, you usually know within thirty to sixty days. So, you know this approach gives both parties an opportunity to part ways with minimal impact, and so you know to me that’s a benefit to both, right? Because sometimes these relationships can turn into three, five, or even twenty-year relationships in my case, right? So, you want to make sure it’s good for both. But I would say it helps you to understand what you’re getting into, you know, sometimes the roles aren’t always advertised as reality, you know one role can be written a certain way but you get into it and realize that it’s something completely different it’s not using your skill sets, it’s just not a good fit, or maybe the hiring manager, you know, is just not who they sold themselves to be either. Right? So, I think, you know, going the contract route and working through a staffing firm gives you the flexibility to make several attempts if needed to find the right fit. Dave Webb: 21:58 I hope this has been helpful for you today, you know, we’ve gotten a great perspective from both sides of the recruiting and staffing and hiring transaction. You don’t have to go relearn what David and Jill have spent the last two to three decades learning, they have great advice, if these aren’t things you’re incorporating in your day to day business practices, give them a shot, you don’t have anything to lose, try this stuff out, talk to your coworkers about it, see what they’re doing. Never stop learning, never stop learning how to be a great recruiter, never stop interviewing for your job every day, attack your job with the same veracity that you would attack anything that you love because your life depends on it. Dave Webb: 22:40 Alright, now for the fun part: What was your most awkward interview and why? Jill Chapman 22:45 I guess the first time that, and this is when I was a candidate, right? So, it was one of my first interviews as I was getting out of college and honest to goodness, I had no interest in this job, I think I went because my daddy helped set the interview up and I did not want the job at the end of the day anyway, so it probably that was probably evident to the recruiter in my body language and just how I handled things but. Okay, so you have to know, I was a journalism and public relations major in college and I went to this interview with a typo on my resume, and you know, so, I mean like, what does that say about a Journalism/PR major that has a typo on her resume in the first place, but now I’m going to also date myself because as a journalist, as a public relations aspirant, I did a lot of work with what we used to refer to as a video display terminal. So, kids this was way back before smart phones and all that sort of thing, but it was this static big old thing that would set on the desk, and instead of using video display terminal, I wrote VTD, like video terminal display, right? So the recruiter caught it and he challenged me, he was asking what did I mean by that and did I really mean BTD, or Did I mean VDT and I was so sure of myself I guess or maybe I didn’t care, I don’t know what it was, but I was insisting I was correct, and kept referring to it through the course of my interview as a VTD, I was clearly wrong. Dave Webb: 24:13 How about you, David? David Steele: 24:14 My most awkward interview was probably in the last ten years, you know I’ve been with my firm for twenty, but it’s always good to go out and understand your value in the marketplace, so I was out doing an interview for an executive role, and I hadn’t interviewed in a really long time. And I was just not prepared for the interview even though I’d done all my research, done all the things that I’d just given great advice on, right? And I’m smiling when I say this, but I was simply rusty and wished that I’d practiced interviewing in front of a camera to see how I was doing from the interviewer’s perspective. And I’ve since gone on several more interviews since then and gotten better, but again, practice, practice, practice. If, you know, if I’m going to give more advice out of this question it would be that. Dave Webb: 25:00 What was your first job ever, and how old were you? David Steele: 25:03 I think my family broke a few laws, because I was working probably from the time, I was ten on. You know, I grew up on a farm and you know, I’m only laughing because you know it was free labor, it was child labor, and we hauled a lot of hay. I’m sure several listeners can probably relate to that as well. but I saw that as kind of my first job, but really my first formal job was working in the auto part warehouse, building shelves and really doing just general warehouse work. But you know, it was interesting, I look back on that as you know the simpler days and kind of eager to learn how businesses work and I was just happy to be working. Dave Webb: 25:43 How about you, Jill? Jill Chapman: 25:44 I was in high school, I was a senior in high school and I worked for a store, a retail place, it’s called Collary Royal, I think they still exist, or maybe they’ve been bought and sold a couple times, it was a small clothing store, we didn’t sell anything but clothing and accessories and things like that, and I was hired to be, and this also I guess dates me because it’s slightly not PC right now, but I was a fur model, and what makes, I don’t know why a company would hire, I was 16 or 17 years old, a senior in high school, and I was short, I’m a little short girl, so who thought that was a good idea for a fur model? But when we weren’t doing that, we worked in the, I would work in the main office of the store, like the back office of the store where you go to pay for your layaways or your credit card bills and that sort of thing or where you’d get things gifts wrapped, so I did a ton of gift wrapping. But you know what’s interesting about that first job? And who knew that it was going to foretell my career, but I would also process all the applications for people who wanted to work at the store and I was doing like time cards, I would make sure there weren’t errors on the timecards and doing a little bit of that kind of work, so who knew that was going to foretell a future in HR with that first little high school job? Dave Webb: 27:01 Okay, now we’re going to do a segment where we kind of put you in the hotseat where I give you a job description and you try to guess what is the title: Tell people that they can’t spend money they thought they had. David Steele: 27:16 CFO Dave Webb: 27:17 That, I actually think that’s the right answer, the one on the list it was advertised for a government analyst. So, that’s the CFO in the government. I, you get a point. David Steele: 27:30 Alright, I’ll take it. Dave Webb: 27:31 Okay, last one, and this one came up today: a sales killer. Jill Chapman: 27:36 Ooh, a sales killer, I’m a sales killer, but it’s a job, like that’s my job to be a sales killer, I’m gonna say it’s somebody who works in procurement. Dave Webb: 27:46 That… That’s really cl.. there was procurement involved in this story, it was actually the lawyers. Jill Chapman: 27:52 Who? Dave Webb: 27:53 The lawyers. Jill Chapman: 27:54 Oh, the lawyers, okay, so yeah. Dave Webb: 27:55 Yeah, so between the lawyers and procurement, yeah, we’re not sure if sales are gonna happen or not. Jill Chapman: 28:00 right, yeah, so okay, that’s yeah, lawyers too, known to say no, right? Dave Webb: 28:07 Any final pieces of advice or last words for our audience today? David Steele: 28:11 Well this is the people aspect of you know, the IT industry, right, so being people who we are and we’re social creatures, build a relationship with a staffing firm and it’s going to pay off. And that goes both for hiring managers, and for you know, someone seeking a job. That relationship is critical, so you may not get a first job, you may you know not have instant success, but that relationship over the long term will pay off. Second one is, again, do your research, right? Not only of the targeted company that you’re trying to shoot for, or the staffing firm is lining you up with, but do your research of the staffing firm itself, right. To your point, Dave, you know we’ve all got street cred, street reputations, right? Find out who you’re dealing with, right, and because that relationship is gonna be key. And then lastly, you know, be consistent and follow through with what your gonna say you’ll do, if you say you’re gonna follow up with an email or phone call, or whatever it is that you commit to, be consistent and follow through because you know that speaks to your character and that tells a hiring manager a lot about who you are. Jill Chapman: 29:23 I think I’m gonna harp, continue to harp on that whole idea of a partnership and really I think that speaks to the candidates as well as the clients in their relationship with the recruiter that it has to be an honest to goodness partnership you know that everybody understands that they’ve got a part to play in this equation and that everybody does their full on best to do their part in the relationship. But I think the whole idea of partnership is maybe the one key phrase or the one key idea that I would I would harp on today. And I think when I talk about partnership and that and relationships you have to talk about communication and I do think that anytime we have unmet expectations or a breakdown in those communications it is because it’s just mis, misunderstood expectations so that that’s why it’s important for everybody to be on the same page and to continue to talk about things until we hammer out that that place that we can coexist that we we’re all in agreement. Dave Webb: 30:27 I’d like to thank both of you for being with us today, it’s been a real treat, and just for all the listeners, if they’d like to find out more about you and get in touch with you, what’s the best way to do that? David Steele: 30:36 Sure, so obviously, LinkedIn is gonna be my go to, that’s how I connect professionally with everyone, you can easily find me at Davidsteele, and I think by, you know, if you’ve listened to the interview you can probably single me out among the multiple David Steeles. https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmsteele Jill Chapman: 30:53 probably the easiest way to get in touch with me as an individual is via LinkedIn. but I’ll have you know that my LinkedIn profile still has me as Jill Silman, my twitter handle is Jsilman, lots of reasons for that, but largely LinkedIn’s new policies and if I make some changes to my name it changes a lot of other things and I didn’t want to do that. So, jillsilmanchapman on LinkedIn or @jsilman on twitter. Dave Webb: 31:19 Okay, I don’t know about you guys, but I‘m exhausted, that’s another episode of RecruiterCast forward it to your friends, your coworkers, your parents, your kids, don’t forget to check us out at recruitercast.com. Dial the number on the website if you have any suggestions, or if you want to ask a question for a later episode. Advertisement: 31:37 904-525-8134 Dave Webb: 31:42 also, we have forums: recommend a guest, ask a question, recommend a show topic or just give us feedback, bad feedback we’re just gonna throw away, good feedback we might read on the air next time. Be sure to check us out on social media, LinkedIn, Instagram Facebook and twitter, we are @recruitercast. Recruiter cast is an original production, produced and recorded in St Augustine beach Florida and is hosted by me, Dave Webb. Our executive producers are Andrew Seward, and Heidi Green. Original music by Dave Webb and Andrew Seward, thanks for listening and happy recruiting.