Dave Webb	0:06	I'm Dave Webb and you're listening to RecruiterCast.

Jayson Miller	0:11	" Hiring is so difficult and so challenging in this environment, then again what I'm hearing most often is, ""I really need my internal HR resources. I need my internal talent resources to focus on strategic initiatives and source, too. Perhaps you could help us with attracting, qualifying and presenting to us really great talent."""

Dave Webb	0:33	"That's Jayson Miller of Source2, in Winter Park, Florida. His RPO helps many companies achieve the hiring results that they cannot achieve on their own. In this episode, we're going to explore what is an RPO? What kind of company might consider an RPO for their hiring needs to supercharge their hiring efforts? What about the job seeker? Do they even know when RPO is involved? And does RPO even matter to them?"

Jayson Miller	0:57	"You know it's kind of this perception�that it's all or nothing which is not true. RPOs will go out, engage in various different ways. Sometimes that's on a project basis. Sometimes it's a long-term basis and even when it's on a long-term basis, most RPO's are flexible to take just a job category or maybe a specific geographic region. Maybe the support acquisition of new companies and support their talent efforts. So companies do not give up control and almost all instances they're retaining their existing team, at least in my experience, and it's not an all-or-nothing decision.�"

Dave Webb	1:37	"Then we'll discuss RPO as the relatively new model in the industry. What it means for the older models and what's on the horizon? Internal HR departments are at capacity. They either have to hire new recruiters, train them and set them out to see if it workout, or they can put their trust in an expert like an RPO. The RPO brings all of the tools necessary for you to hire quickly and efficiently giving you the lowest possible time to hire and a maximum return on your investment. Think of a skilled worker showing up in your house to do a project. They have all the tools they need right there on the truck and you pay them and it's just done and it's done right. The total cost of a project is way less than if you were to do it yourself. The quality? Well, the quality is unmatched and using an RPO yields the same results. Yes, you can hire someone yourself, but do you have the resources and are they going to be the best quality candidate? In this episode, we will explore low unemployment, post-recession hiring, and how an RPO could help your organization achieve all of its goals. Here's another thought from Jayson Miller."

Jayson Miller	2:42	" As an RPO firm, recruitment is all we do all day, every day. In almost every other organization, recruitment is just a small portion of what they do and it isn't necessarily the focus of their line of business. Having experts that really know, really know the space, have access to the most modern tools and then like any other outsourcing arrangement there's economy as a scale, right? So Source2, for example, doesn't have just one customer. We have many, many customers so we're able to aggregate things like purchasing ads on job boards and because we are a large buyer of those services, we're able to drive down unit costs and really provide better results for the customers that we serve."

Dave Webb	3:24	"I'm Dave Webb, CEO, and co-founder of BrightMove. For over 25 years, my job has been to learn all of the ins and outs of the recruiting industry and then write the software that makes it all happen. I know who to talk to and what to ask them. We have the information that you cannot get anywhere else. So get ready to learn the secrets that will give you an advantage as a recruiter, job seeker or business owner. It's time for RecruiterCast."

Advertisement	3:51	 RecruiterCast is brought to you by BrightMove. The most innovative applicant tracking system built with the recruiter and candidate in mind.� Learn more at brightmove.com.

Dave Webb	4:03	" For the listeners, they might not even be aware that there is more than one way to hire people or get hired out there. But behind the scenes, we have several business models. Some of them have been around for a long time; some of them are relatively new. I think of RPO as a relatively new model. It seems like just within the last 10 years, it kind of emerged. The industry consensus is kind of it was an answer to the market crash of 2008. Kind of the shift in cost savings and employee reduction and then the re-ramping up of employment after that recovery. So could you just tell us a little bit your thoughts about that about what is RPO and why does it exist? Maybe compare and contrast to some of the other models for hiring and staffing."

Jayson Miller	4:52	"Yeah, absolutely. You're right. It is different. It is unique and it's really been around for quite a bit longer than the past decade.�But it was really primarily utilized by Fortune 500 companies. So the largest of largest firms over the past decade or so it's really become a viable solution for much smaller businesses. But to take it a step back what is recruitment process outsourcing? It's when an organization or a company outsources the recruitment function in a whole or in part to a third-party expert like Source2. Kind of digging a bit deeper what is that really mean? What does an RPO do? The RPO will typically hire and manage a team of recruiters, develop a recruitment process. In many cases, provide technology, and then ultimately be accountable for delivering the result for the position that the RPO manages. It's a lot. It's a lot to think about. A lot to digest but in its essence, the RPO is responsible for attracting, qualifying and presenting candidates that the client company will ultimately determine whether or not to hire those individuals. You mentioned it's relatively new, 2008. "
Jayson Miller	6:06	"What was it born out of? I think you're spot on there. In 2008, it was a very difficult time for the world and the country. We're in a recession and organizations were looking for ways to drive down costs and RPO was a potential solution to help reduce costs specifically in the talent acquisition or the recruitment function. You touched on something else that has changed pretty dramatically since 2008 which is the employment environment. Unemployment rates nationally are at an all-time low. Wages have continued to rise. So the value proposition of a recruitment process outsourcing firm has really shifted in the years since 2008 to be less emphasis on cost savings. Although that's still important and more of a focus on driving value, finding ways to get creative to reach the talent an organization needs, given the hyper-competitive employment environment that we're in."

Dave Webb	7:03	" To summarize what Jayson is saying here, hiring is all about supply and demand. Right now, demand is high; supply not so high. It's not only hard to find someone to hire, it's even harder to find that really, really good hire that you want at your organization for a long time. There's two concepts of value. There's the value that the RPO brings in hiring the person for you and then the value that that person will bring you over time. Factoring in the cost to hire and on-board that employee. And then fitting them into your company culture doing reviews, putting together performance improvement plan, everything you need to have a healthy relationship with that employee. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about the value that the RPO brings to the organization. But before, let's dispel a myth about having to give up control when you engage with an RPO company."

Jayson Miller	7:58	" Gosh, I have to give up complete control on outsourcing my recruiting function. That's scary. Do I have to give up complete control? And the answer is no, absolutely not. It's a tight partnership but ultimately the customer still retains the ability to make the hiring decisions and locks arms with the RPO to really come up with a process and go-to-market strategy that works for the firm that we're partnering with. There's also kind of a misconception that, ""Oh, my gosh, if we engage with an RPO I have to lay off my existing team,"" and gosh, looking at our customer base and the new customers that we've acquired over the past few years, I'm not aware of a single instance of a firm that's engaged with us that has in turn laid off their existing team because of our relationship. You know it's kind of this perception that it's all or nothing which is not true. RPOs will go out, engage in various different ways. Sometimes that's on a project basis; sometimes it's on a long-term basis and even --when it's on a long-term basis, most RPOs are flexible to take just a job category or maybe a specific geographic region. Maybe the support acquisition of new companies and support their talent efforts. So companies do not give up control in almost all instances, they're retaining their existing team at least in my experience and it's not an all-or-nothing decision."

Dave Webb	9:25	" So to recap, RPO is a very versatile tool for your hiring needs whether you are a small company or a large company. An RPO can take on all of your hiring needs or just some of your hiring needs. Try it out with a very difficult job function or a very difficult geographical area where you might not have the physical presence to do the hiring yourself. And if it works, continue with it and if it doesn't, it's okay. You still have your internal team in place."

Advertisement	9:54	"RecruiterCast is brought to you by BrightMove. The most innovative applicant tracking system built with�the recruiter and candidate in mind. Be sure to check out BrightMove on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn at BrighMove. Visit us on the web at brightmove.com.�"

Dave Webb	10:11	" I know myself when I'm making buying decisions. I am usually short-sighted to that and I just think, ""Oh, I could do this myself and I probably could. It just would eventually cost more than hiring an expert to do it when you weigh the time, quality and whether or not I can actually hire somebody at the end of the day for that position. So companies that might benefit from RPO. Is there a vertical that where RPO makes the most sense and maybe one where it doesn't make sense at all?"

Jayson Miller	10:42	" You know, I think there are RPO firms out there that can cover virtually in the industry today. I can tell you kind of the things that we see most often when a prospective customer approaches us. It's usually one of three things. They're having difficulty attracting the quality talent that they need and it somehow impacting their business. Maybe it's limiting growth. Second thing is that they come to us and just say, ""Our internal resources are overtaxed. I've got a lot of competing priorities and my internal resources are just having difficulty keeping up with our hiring needs."" And in many cases, they come to us and say, ""Not only are they have problems keeping up with the hiring needs, it's crowding out other strategic activities."" And the third thing is just, they're growing. They are experiencing or anticipating a growth in hiring activity. So any organization that is experiencing those three things, I really encourage them to take a look at RPO's potential solution."

Dave Webb	11:47	"So it sounds like you're saying RPO is not an all-or-nothing solution and there's this hybrid approach where if a company has a small HR department that handles their needs, 10 months out of the year because maybe they are a seasonal company, that they can even engage in RPO for just part of the year to scale the hiring in needs and maybe even the attrition needs during that time period. Is that accurate?"

Jayson Miller	12:11	"Oh yeah, that's accurate. One of the things that we most frequently hear from our existing customers who say they love our flexibility. Say you bring up a great example, if there is a seasonal hiring need, one option that a company would have would be to hire up their internal team to meet those seasonal hiring needs. But then they're faced with the dilemma of, ""What we do once that seasonal hiring project is done? Are we going to lay off folks? Are we going to bring in temporary folks? If we bring in temporary folks, are we going to get the same level of quality and commitment that we would if these were full-time employees?"" So yeah, that's one of the benefits that an RPO brings, is the ability to scale up and scale down as a customer needs it without necessarily taken on the fixed cost and overhead for meeting those needs internally."

Dave Webb	13:01	"Scale is a very popular word these days and you'll hear it used in a lot of business conversations. To put it simply, it's the ability for your company to quickly adjust to its changing environment so that it can maximize cost and efficiency. RPOs can help you scale your hiring and if you're hiring is scaled, the rest of your business operations can scale along with it. How does a company save money by using an RPO company versus just putting a job after themselves to hire for it or hiring a staffing firm who they might only call once or twice a year to hire a couple of positions?"

Jayson Miller	13:41	"Sure. Yeah, and you're right. I'm going to touch on a few things that you mention there. One was the balance of cost and quality and the idea that employers and organizations are really looking for ways to create added value for their potential candidates and their employees. This has been really �cool�to watch the evolution of the RPO space. So I mentioned before that the essence of an RPO is about attracting, qualifying and presenting candidates to customers. All the best RPOs have really evolved to go well beyond that. So providing meaningful insights and recommendations using data and analytics, assisting with workforce planning, assisting with employer branding, developing programs even to support engagement retention, providing strategic guidance and business reviews. And it's really the sum of those value-added services and the expertise that an RPO firm brings that can help drive the outcomes that the organization is really seeking. Whether that be lower costs, improve quality, increase efficiency or scalability, it's really those full package of services backed by experts.�"

Dave Webb	14:52	"Some projects you can take on yourself, and some are fun. Other times, you need to call on the heavy hitters. You need the experts to show�up with the tools ready to get the job done. If I want to put in a deck at my house, that's not that hard to do. So I can go to Home Depot and I can buy the wood. Everybody's got to do that. But then I have to buy a saw, and I have to buy a drill, and I have to buy measuring tape, and maybe a handful of other things, and now my project is twice as much as it was when I first scripted out. Talk to me about an RPO and how they show up at your house, so to speak, in my metaphor, with the toolbox full of everything that they need to get the job done fast? What are some of those tools that a small business might not be able to even afford and a larger business might still even be able to save on because of the magnitude of scale that you guys buy it?"

Jayson Miller	15:44	"Oh, my goodness. I could talk a full episode about this. It's something that I'm very passionate about I'll try to take it piece by piece. But I think there's three important components to the toolkit. There's the people component, which is in my view the most important component."
Jayson Miller	16:00	"So really bringing seasoned individuals that are passionate about this function and recruitment and experienced in it. There's the process side of it, right? So really understanding, using your analogy, what's the right way to build a deck that will result in a quality deck that's going to last me a long time and look really good? Do I start by just dumping out the nails and laying out the wood or is there a different way to approach that? So there's the people side of it and the expertise that comes along with that. The process side of it, like having a good understanding of what is the right way to approach recruiting in talent acquisition? Then the third part which again, I'm a bit of a tech geek and that's my background that I get excited about is the tool kit of all the technology that is not only available but becoming increasingly necessary to a successful talent acquisition and recruitment strategy.�Some of those things could include an applicant tracking system like BrightMove. It could include a program to allow candidates to engage or reply via text messaging. It could include tools like big data and analytics to make sure that your compensation structure and strategy is in alignment with the market. It could include government data sources so you're taking a mix of private and public data sources to really make sure that you understand and leverage and present the job in the right way. There are compliance components, right? So to make sure that you are staying abreast and being compliant with the national and state regulations and laws. There's all these tools and often internally, I refer to it as recruitment task proliferation. Back in the day, it was, post an ad in your local newspaper. Have a few people show up and that was good enough and that was sufficient and it got the job done. "
Jayson Miller	17:57	"Today, the complexity of the legal and compliance landscape has continued to balloon. Then really we've had consumer shifts that have found its way into the recruitment space. Two examples of that is, you may have heard of these two companies, Netflix and Amazon. Might be familiar to some of your listeners too but we used to consume TV that you turn on the channel; a show would be happening at a certain time and place. You'd have to sit through commercials. Now, if I want to watch a program I go to Netflix and I can consume it all at once on demand. Amazon, right? I have this item that I want to buy. Maybe it's not widely available but I just drop it at my cart and it magically shows up on my doorstep two days later. That consumer experience has shifted what candidates are now expecting from the recruitment experience, right? They want immediate attention. They want to engage with employers in their communication channel of choice. Being able to deliver�that experience requires a vast toolkit that would quite frankly just really not be possible or practical for all but the most large organizations, right? But it's becoming increasingly necessary for smaller businesses to leverage those same approaches and technologies to be successful in their hiring."

Dave Webb	19:24	"In addition to the scaled buying power that an RPO can bring to your company, they can also help you with compliance issues. They can make sure that your hiring according to all of the latest local state and national laws. You made me think of something that I'd like to ask you to take a little bit deeper dive on and that's, you talked about giving up control. I think the surface level a company thinks of giving up control is someone just shows up and starts working without them having the ability to say, ""Yes, I would like to choose one person from a two or three best resumes."" Another part of that, that I think of as a company owner is the value in the data in the resumes that my internal people collect. And when I hire the fifth person, it may be cheaper than hiring the first person because I already have a pool of resumes and people that I pre-screen to choose from. Let's not go down to tangent of info security in the world that we live in today because we only have an hour. But with the current implementation of the GDPR laws and how those have affected as in the States and just the public's concern over data privacy in general. If I'm a company and my data's valuable to me, how does that work if I decide to use an RPO company?"

Jayson Miller	20:49	"Yeah, that's an important consideration for any firm that's outsourcing any internal function. Particularly important when it comes to your employees or prospective employees and a short answer to that question is, make sure that it's covered contractually. So in the Source2 relationships for example, our client companies still have complete control and ownership of the data that we collect on their behalf so it's their data. But that's something that you would definitely want to dig into with any RPO that you're considering. Make sure that you do have ownership of that data and then peel back the onion a couple of layers, make sure that there's a good privacy policy in place. Make sure that they can articulate to you what their practices are for ensuring compliance and keeping their data safe and secure."

Dave Webb	21:37	" On the topic of contracts and I think that's important, and any company engaging in any provider like you said, and especially provider that's touching their human resources which are the, what's the way to say it, they're the most variable. They're the least predictable resource in the company. Having a good contract in place is important and I think one that everyone should be comfortable with. It's sounds like with an RPO if a company is kind of inundated with vendor management with 3 to 5, maybe even 10 staff augmentation providers that kind of consolidating their staff augmentation providers into one RPO might give them some leverage contractually and maybe with control over their brand and how their jobs are recruited for. Can you talk about that a little bit?"

Jayson Miller	22:32	" Yeah, absolutely and I would completely agree with what you said, David.�It's really an opportunity for any organization to look at, consolidating their staffing strategy and their vendor portfolio. RPOs, generally, provide greater flexibility and greater clarity around how the brand will be leveraged and utilized in the marketplace. And I should make that call out too�because the audience may not be aware, but one thing that really separates an RPO relationship from a typical search or staffing relationship is that, in almost all cases, the RPO firm is acting as an extension of the client's brand. They're going to the market as the customer's brand and really aspiring to act as an extension of the client's team as well, too.�So yes. It's a great opportunity because the flexibility exists. Of course, with consolidation comes more opportunities to consolidate and leverage buying power. So there's often a reduction in cost that comes with that. And then, yes, RPOs, by their nature, are sensitive and structured in such a way that the client has a lot of control over how the brand is being utilized. And the best RPOs will be very consultative in this regard and really be thoughtful about how the employer brand can be further developed and leveraged to really try to attract the�right type of talent for that organization."

Dave Webb	24:03	"So these are just a few of the ways that an RPO can bring value to your organization and the return on investment that you would get from hiring an RPO.�When we return, we'll talk about something even more valuable than the value they bring to your company. And that's the value that they bring to your employee experience."

Advertisement	24:23	"Be sure to check out RecruiterCast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, at�RecruiterCast."

Dave Webb	24:31	"One thing I've seen over and over again with RPOs that I've worked with is just how effective they are at taking your company's brand and becoming a natural extension of that brand and taking it into the job marketplace to find you the best employees. They can really add that extra ""oomph"" that lets you supercharge the way that you advertise your jobs. There's a huge difference between a job description and a job advertisement.  You need to be marketing yourselves to these candidates. You'll be lucky if the best candidate applies to your job. And when they do, you must seize the opportunity to make them understand that coming to work for you and your company is the best decision for them, because once you lose them, you've probably lost them for good.�With Source2 and with many of the other RPOs that I've worked with, it's that when they take control of that brand and act as a natural extension of your HR Department, it really does look quite seamless to the job seeker. Here at RecruiterCast, we talk a lot about applying real marketing strategies to job descriptions, because as you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, unemployment is at an all-time low. It's almost impossible to find certain skill sets in this economy. You never have the second chance to make the first impression to use a cliche that has a lot of truth in it. And being very�intentional about the job description and being consistent in your brand matters, because little attention to detail can sway a candidate one way or the other."

Jayson Miller	26:09	"It can. You want to put your best foot forward in. And it's interesting, one of the things that we try to educate our customers and prospective customers on is the difference between a job description and a job posting or job ad. I find that often, those two things are treated the same. And we view them at Source2 as very different things. A good job description should outline responsibilities and requirements of the job. A good job ad should really attract the good-fit prospective candidates, right? So you want to tell the story about what's in it for me. You want to describe the culture. You want to put that best foot forward. So you'd really can make that initial connection. And then dive deeper into the qualification.�So yes, you're absolutely right. In today's market, there's an exercise, first and foremost, about getting a prospective candidate interested, telling your story as a company and why that prospective employee may want to work with you, and then moving into qualification. I think, historically, those job ads have been used to pre-qualify candidates. And we view that very differently here at Source2."

Dave Webb	27:17	" I would almost argue that there's the 80-20 rule that could be applied here. And then on the job ad that you're describing, about 20% of it is about the job. And the other 80% should be really selling the company and the culture and the package and the experience that that applicant and, ultimately employee would have should they choose that job over another one with the exact same technical or literal skill set match."

Jayson Miller	27:41	That's exactly right. What's in it for me? You want to get that prospective candidate open to having a conversation and a deeper dialogue about the fit and the requirements. But the first step is just to get them interested to have that conversation. And we really see job ads as a vehicle for doing just that.

Dave Webb	27:59	" From the applicant's perspective when they apply to a job on a site like ZipRecruiter or Indeed, do they know that an RPO is behind the scenes? And if so, does it matter? And should they do anything differently in applying to the job in that case?"

Jayson Miller	28:16	"You know, in most cases, on the surface, I'd say no, right? So most RPOs are, again, acting as an extension of the customer's brands. So when we go to market, we are presenting ourselves as the customer.�So on first glance, a candidate may not know that they're engaging with an RPO firm versus engaging with a customer's internal talent team.�But you know, if we dig a bit deeper, I'd say it really does matter to a job seeker. And this is the part that I get very excited about is the best RPOs are really pushing to create a much better candidate experience. So while they might not know it on�the surface, if there's a good RPO servicing that customer, the candidate experience should be much, much better. And it's something that I'm super passionate about, super excited about.�But I'll give you one example. When I talk to people, I get in a room full of people. And I say, ""Hey, just quick show of hands. Have you ever applied for a job online or elsewhere and never received a call or response back?"" And invariably, at least 80% of the hands in the room go up. And in many cases, it's every single person in the room, right? And it's interesting, because most companies at this stage acknowledge and recognize that people are their most important asset, right? And you go to their website that says, ""People are our most important asset. We're going to treat you very, very well if you join this company. And here's all the benefits. And here's our culture."" But then there's still this antiquated process if I click the 'Apply' button and it kind of goes into a black hole. On one hand�we say people are our most important asset. But then, on the other hand, recruitment processes are designed so it's: ""I click the Apply button. I'm not going to you if I'm going to get back to you. If I do get back to you, I'm not going to tell you when that's going to be. "
Jayson Miller	30:13	"And then if we do chat in the future, I'm not going to necessarily be clear about whether or not you're a good fit for the role in the organization.""�And so what's exciting to me is that there's so much opportunity. And again, good RPO firms are really trying hard to transform that experience, right? So for us at Source2, we see technology as a means to an end. We actually view technology as a way to create a more personal experience for candidates to eliminate that black hole. And this is particularly important for my perspective for entry-level or hourly job seekers. My experience has been that they don't always get the dignity, respect, and level of professionalism that I think everybody deserves.  We're working�hard to change that, particularly, for that group of employees.�And to circle back around to your original question, does RPO really matter to a job seeker? Maybe not in some cases because it will look like it's the customer's brand. But I think it really matters for all job seekers because RPOs are really at the forefront of pushing a radical transformation in how candidates and employers engage and connect with each other."

Dave Webb	31:32	"Ask Jayson for some final thoughts on the future of the RPO business model.�And I'd kind of just like to ask you as a veteran and an expert in this field. And I'd say after 17 years, you're probably locked into this. This might be your career, Jayson. So given your credentials, kind of what do you see in the next 5, 10 years in the recruiting industry? Are there any new business models emerging?� Do you see a need for any new business models? And are there any models that you might see kind of fading away and becoming obsolete?�"

Jayson Miller	32:08	" Yes. So I'll take that one piece at a time. Are there any new models emerging? Yes, there are. There's a few things that we're keeping our eyes on. One is on-demand models making its way into the recruitment space. So recruiters on-demand submit a job, get somebody at the moment that you need it. Technology only models are seeing a rise. So there are models where, ""Just send us your job description and our technology will handle getting your job in front of candidates, screening candidates, and sending you the most qualified."" And then some self-service options, too.�So it's interesting to see these three models. Again, my belief is that's it really consumer technology that's driving some of these shifts in models in the recruitment space.  So those are some emerging models that we're keeping our eyes on.�Do I think that there are any models that will become obsolete? I do think there will be some models that will become less relevant. Some of these newer models like RPO and some of the emerging models that we talked about, while new are proving to be more effective in many cases. But honestly, I don't see anything completely going away in the near term. But there may be a shift on what people see as more useful and relevant, what people see as less useful or relevant."

Dave Webb	33:33	"When you mentioned the self-service option, I immediately think of GitHub. For the listeners who aren't aware of what GitHub is, it's kind of open to everyone - computer, software, code repository - where if you want to write some software and share it with the world, have at it. You don't have to go through Microsoft, or Apple, or Oracle. You don't have to go work for a software company to kind of publish your wares.  �I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of a push in our industry for the job applicants to take a little bit more control over their own destiny. Is there anything like that? Or can you think of a reason why that would or would not be successful?�"

Jayson Miller	34:16	" I think we are starting to see some of that. And I can share a few specific examples there. But kind of taking a step back, I think we will continue to see candidates and employees both be more empowered, more in control of their own data, right? And there's a few specific examples that come to mind for me where this is already happening today. One is on the platform called LinkedIn, most of your listeners are probably familiar with that platform.�But candidates now or people that are users of the system have the ability to raise their hand essentially and say, ""You know, I'm interested and I'm open to having a conversation with other�companies about making a shift in my career or my employer."" They also have the ability to put that hand down and say, ""You know, not at this time. Please don't reach out to me. I'm not really interested in hearing from you."" So there's this kind of evolving model in my mind where this concept of sourcing, and sourcing for your listeners is when recruiters like us go out and try to reach folks that are already employed and get them interested in a potential new opportunity. I almost see that there's going to be, at least to some extent, a reversal of the sourcing model where it's actually candidates have a way to go to employers and say, ""You know, now might be the right time to talk to me, instead of it going the other direction.""�And then look in big picture, and I think this is true also from again a consumer products and technology standpoint, we're starting to see some level of backlash and skepticism related to technology.  Spending so much time on our smart devices. Are the blue screens good for us? What are these large providers doing with our data and technology? "
36:08	"So we're starting to see providers like LinkedIn and Indeed acknowledge and recognize that and give candidates more control over their own destiny, over their own data, and giving them mechanisms to let potential employers know if now is a good time to have a conversation or not."

Dave Webb	36:29	"Okay. So, hopefully, you've learned a lot today about RPOs. I know the first time I learned about the business model, it took me a couple of times just to digest what was going on, how it fit in the world that I've known up to that point, and really how it could help. But being involved with people like Jayson, day in and day out, for years on end, you really get to see the value that they bring. I know that Jayson's company can hire sometimes 4 to 5,000 people in just one season for one of their customers. And that's a workload that's hard to take on for any team.�If you have that seasonal hiring or if you have trouble keeping your internal HR Department staffed or if you're a staffing company and you just need some additional help, an RPO can really extend that piece of your organization. As we said in the episode, bring all of those tools and get the job done and if it's done professionally and it's something that everybody can be proud of at the end.�But one of the most important things that Jayson talked about was when you're dealing with hiring at such a scale that an RPO does is that dignity, that dignity that you bring to the hiring process. Most people that you're going encounter are sometimes at a low point in their life. And just an email saying, ""Keep it up. But we're not interested right now,"" goes a long way. And you'll get referrals. You'll get people talking good about your company. And more importantly, you'll have people not talking bad about your company and your hiring practices."

Dave Webb	37:54	Now is the fun part. Are you ready?

Jayson Miller	37:57	 I'm ready. Fire away.

Dave Webb	37:58	Okay.� �What was your most awkward job interview and why? I've had it answered in two ways: as the interviewer and the interviewee. But I'll let you pick.

Jayson Miller	38:08	"Yes. So this one was a bit more difficult for me. I've been fortunate that the interviews that I've given and the interviews that I've received have generally been pretty good. But there was one interesting one. This was when my family and I lived in Hawaii, we were moving back to the US Mainland and I was sitting on an advisory board of a company in San Francisco. The company's name is Sequoia, wonder of professional organization and brokerage firm. Fabulous group of people and I was coming back to the Mainland. They said, ""Hey, we've never met you in person. We would love you to just swing by. We'd like to thank you for participating in our advisory board and just take an opportunity to shake hands with you."" And I said, ""Of course. What a generous offer. I'd love to do that.""�So I arrived in San Francisco and their Chief Marketing�Officer met me first. He said, ""Hey, Jayson. I have got the pleasure to meet you. You're awesome. Love having you here and I just want to let you know something."" I said, ""What's that, McKaley?"" And he said, ""This might feel strangely like a job interview."" And I said, ""Well, that's interesting. Because I'm not looking for a job. And I'm not here to interview for a job."" He said, ""Yes. I know that that's the case. But it just might feel that way and if you could roll with it, that would be really cool."" I was expecting to meet one or two people. I think I met with about two dozen people that were a part of this company. And at the end of it, I sat down with the CEO and he said, ""Yes. So you may have not realized it, but you've been on an interview this whole time and we'd like to hire you."" So that one was just an interesting and unique experience. I didn't even know that I was interviewing other than being tipped off at the last minute by this Chief Marketing Officer that I was working with and I did get a job offer at the end of that visit."

Dave Webb	40:00	We have a job description guessing game. I'm going to read you a real job description pulled from the internet and you get to guess what the job title is.�Spend most of the day looking out the window.

Jayson Miller	40:10	" I'm going to go, Professional Bird Watcher."

Dave Webb	40:14	"That's a pretty good guess. It's a pilot. And I can see�Professional Bird Watcher, too. I didn't know that was an occupation."

Jayson Miller	40:22	 I actually don't either. I just made it up. But it's the first thing that came to mind for me.

Dave Webb	40:27	"[laughs] Oh, you're a good sport and I appreciate you participating in that, Jayson.�What are the top three things that you would like to share with the listeners based on your experience and how long you've been working in the hiring industry?"

Jayson Miller	40:41	"I would say the first one is, just have a general openness to new things, including RPO. Embrace change. Embrace the idea and concept that there may be new things that you haven't experienced before, and they may be good for you or your organization. And I think the RPOs would fall into that bucket,�as we discussed earlier. There are some misconceptions out there about giving up control, laying off teams. It's really not true. That's antiquated thinking and antiquated models that really don't exist anymore. So have an openness. Embrace change. And specifically, if you haven't considered or engaged with an RPO in the past, I think now is an absolutely wonderful time to consider doing so.�The second piece of advice, I guess, that comes to mind for me is, play the long game and walk the talk. So we talked about this on the show. But I think it's so important to treat all people and all candidates with dignity, respect, and professionalism, even the ones that you don't intend to hire. And that's the part about playing the long game. Even though somebody may not be a good fit for the job, their experience with you as an employer will have them either go out and say to their friend who may be a great fit for the job,�""Wow they were great. Even though I didn't get the gig, they were a pleasure to engage with."" And that will really help support improved outcomes. And I would say the same is true for a candidate, right? Play the long game and walk the talk.�And what I would say for candidates is be your authentic self. Be honest. Be open. Don't try too much to really think about what the right answer to the question is. Just give an honest and genuine answer. And I think that that will lead to positive outcomes for job seekers and hiring organizations.�"
Jayson Miller	42:34	"And then last but not least, we haven't touched on this yet. But I'm often asked the question, ""What is the single thing that I can do, Jayson, in my organization to make a large, positive impact to my recruiting and talent efforts?"" And oftentimes I think this is a bit overlooked. And it is effective retention and engagement of your existing employees. And it's like, ""What? Wait, you're a recruiting firm, don't you want to hire more people?"" Well, not always. I want to take good care of you and your organization. And if you want to reduce your recruiting cost, the best way to do that is to treat your current employee base with, again, dignity or respect to keep them there. Make sure that they know that they're respected and valued. Give them good feedback. Engage them. And seek to create the best employment environment you can that will ultimately lead to the need to hire less. And when you do have that need, you're going to be able to attract the best of the best, because the incumbent employees will be your advocates in the marketplace. So focus on retention. Focus on engagement. And that will, ultimately, make a huge impact on your recruiting and talent efforts."

Dave Webb 	43:46	"And if you want to get in touch with Jayson, here, in his own words, is how you can do that."

Jayson Miller 	43:51	"Best way to reach me is to go to our company website which is source2.com. And that's S-O-U-R-C-E and then the number 2 dot com.�LinkedIn is a great way to get in touch with me, too. So just Google Jayson Miller. And that's J-A-Y-S-O-N M-I-L-L-E-R, head on over to LinkedIn, drop me a message, I would be happy to connect with anybody in the audience."

Dave Webb	44:18	"Thanks so much to Jayson Miller for talking with us today. Lots of great insight and knowledge to help us all in the modern recruiting world. Remember to hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook. We are at RecruiterCast. Also check-out our website at recuitercast.com. We have forms for you to submit questions, request guests, and contact us. You can even pick up the phone and call us."

Voice Over	44:40	904-525-8134.

Dave Webb	44:45	"As always, we appreciate you listening and want to hear from you. Happy recruiting.�RecruiterCast is an original production produced and recorded in St Augustine Beach, Florida and is hosted by me, Dave Webb.  �Our Executive Producers are Andrew Seward and Heidi Green. Original music by Dave Webb and Andrew Seward."