"Know what you want. Know what you don’t want. Know what you’ll accept." Great advice from Jim Stroud. This episode is full of great, practical advice for recruiters and job-seekers. Jim also says recruiters should stop using the ATS as the last resort – it should be your first plan of attack when trying to fill a job. For this, and much more, listen to this episode of RecruiterCast.
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Dave Webb 0:03 I'm Dave Webb And you're listening to RecruiterCast. Jim Stroud 0:07 "If you volunteer your time at maybe a homeless shelter feeding the hungry, or maybe you're involved in a sort of clothing drive, some sort of faith based initiative, that kind of thing, you're going to interact with people. And you're going to learn things about yourself. You're going to learn how patient you are. You're going to learn what kind of interpersonal soft skills you have, if at all. If you don't have any, you're going to really discover that you don't have any. Like patience, for example. If you do have some soft skills, that I think people in Generation X and maybe Boomers take for granted, is that you're going to learn how to deal better with people. As a recruiter you have to deal with people, so the more emotional intelligence you have, the more soft skills you have in dealing with people, the more that will make you a better recruiter." Dave Webb 0:59 "That's Jim Stroud, and the question he's answering is this one: What's the one thing recruiters should do to become better recruiters? Is that the answer that you would have given? I think Jim's answer speaks volumes about his insight into this business. Jim Stroud is the definition of a seasoned pro. I won't say he's done it all, but it sure seems like he's getting close. Jim has consulted for Microsoft, Google, MCI, and many more. He's a keynote speaker, produces and hosts his own podcast and video series, he's also written five HR books. I could go on, but wait, maybe he has done it all. Here's Jim again:" Jim Stroud 1:39 "Alright, it's like a guy walking into a bar and three pretty girls kiss him on the cheek, right? Instead of talking to those three pretty girls who kiss him on the cheek, he's going to go try to talk in front of all the other women in the room who have paid him no attention. I'm like dude, if you want to get a date, why don't you talk to the three women who just kissed you on your cheek? You're going to have better success! that's the same thing with recruiters, you know, you've got a whole database full of people who said, 'hey, I like you're company, at least I did at one time because I went to the trouble of submitting my resume,' so why not look at them? They'll probably respond to you faster, especially in this age, this time now where you have such historic lows in unemployment. Deal with the people who have kissed you on the cheek first." Dave Webb 2:23 "That's Jim describing how he wants recruiters to stop using the ATS as a last resort. It makes total sense, right? And the way Jim puts it really drives it home. This man knows what he's talking about and we are lucky to have him on the show today. Jim's going to talk with us about all things recruiting and job seeker advice. We're honored to have him, so let's get to it on this episode of RecruiterCast." Dave Webb 2:48 "I'm Dave Webb, CEO and co-founder of Brightmove. For over twenty-five years, my job has been to learn all of the ins and outs of the recruiting industry and then write the software that makes it all happen. I know who to talk to and what to ask them. We have the information that you cannot get anywhere else. So get ready to learn the secrets that will give you an advantage as a recruiter, job-seeker, or business owner. It's time for RecruiterCast." Advertisement 3:14 "RecruiterCast is brought to you by Brightmove, the most innovative applicant tracking system built with the recruiter and candidate in mind. Learn more at Brightmove.com" Dave Webb 3:26 "And welcome, Jim, I appreciate your time today and if you could just start off by letting our audience know a little bit about yourself and how you got into the recruiting industry." Jim Stroud 3:33 "Sure, sure, well my name is Jim Stroud, most folks call me Jim Stroud, feel free to do the same. I've been (laughs) involved in recruiting and sourcing for two decades, Gosh, can't believe it myself! I worked for such companies as Microsoft, Google, Siemens, MCI, my last two gigs, I was the global head of sourcing and recruiting strategy for Randstad Sourceright. My last gig was with ClickIQ. an automated job advertising platform and there I was their brand ambassador for North America. They were acquired by Indeed which placed me in the enviable position of being open to opportunities (laughs) So that's where I am right now. When I'm not doing the nine to five type stuff, I am doing a podcast of my own, called the Jim Stroud Podcast cause I couldn't think of what else to call it. I also have a YouTube show called the Jim Stroud Show for the same reason, I couldn't think of anything to call it. The topics I cover are the future of work, the future of life, emerging technologies, that kind of thing. I also have a popular blog, JimStroud.com. I think you're seeing a theme there. (laughs) And when not doing those things, I'm speaking at different recruiter conferences, literally all around the world, and I also, when not doing that, enjoying family time, chocolate chip cookies and Marvel Superhero movies which I'm a big, big fan of. You also asked about how I got started in this crazy game we call recruiting. Well, it started way back when. I was in college and I had a desire to become a best selling author, a best selling screenwriter, is that the right thing to say? Yeah, screenwriter, I was writing movies, so writing movies, used to write books, short stories, whatnot. Wasn't really taking Hollywood by storm. So, my girlfriend at the time, who I thought I was going to marry at the time, she said, ""well if you're going to be with me you need to get a real job"". I said, ""yes dear,"" (laughs). So I went to the career center over at Georgia State, go Panthers, and on the wall was a sign that said get paid to surf the internet. I said, ""Wow, get paid to surf the internet, I could do that."" " Jim Stroud 5:55 "At the time I didn't really know what the internet was, a friend of mine who was a system administrator called me into his office literally the day before I saw that ad and he pressed a few buttons and on the screen a picture of a woman in a bikini popped up. I said, ""what's that?"" He said, ""that's the internet."" I said, ""Internet is cool!"" So, that was like all of my experience with the internet, so when I saw that job ad I thought, ""why not."" So I went down to apply for the job and it was with MCI, a telecommunications company for you youngsters who don't know what that is. And I interviewed there and I asked them, I said, ""so what exactly do you want me to do? Cause I'm sure it's not quite what I think it is."" And they said, ""Oh well people are putting their resumes online and we need people to find them for our various jobs."" And I thought: who would put their resume on the internet? And I said, ""okay,"" I said, ""Well how do you do that?"" and then she switched the subject and I said, ""Oh, so you don't know how to do it!"" Makes sense, you want to hire somebody who does know how to do it. So after the interview I went home, looked at the career section on the web page, saw a couple jobs there, I remember going to google which was part of yahoo way back then and I remember reading the help menu to figure out how do I even use the search engine because that's just how much I didn't know about anything and I did a search, found some resumes, sent it to the person who would be my manager and said, ""is this what you want?"" and she said, ""Hired!"" So, I've been doing it since '97, so that's how I got into this crazy, crazy business." Dave Webb 7:28 "You've been doing this a long time, you're what we call a seasoned veteran in recruiting and I'm sure you have a lot of great advice for both the job seeker and the recruiter. You know, while no one falls into it, one of the reasons we to RecruiterCast is because there is this whole modern recruiting economy that everybody is a part of whether they're aware of it or not, right? I mean, especially now that the job seeking and sourcing functions have taken off from the days of scraping search engines and UseNet newsgroups for resumes to where we have these live resumes on Indeed and combinations of your GitHub commits in real-time someone can actually see what you're working on that day in a way, so it's really progressed. Kind of the next question I wanted to ask you, Jim, was out of everyone that you talk to, what is the one thing that you think that all recruiters should know today to become better recruiters?" Jim Stroud 8:20 "Easy, they should volunteer more. That may sound kind of weird, but let me explain this way: If you volunteer your time at maybe a homeless shelter feeding the hungry, or maybe you're involved in a sort of clothing drive, some sort of faith based initiative, that kind of thing, you're going to interact with people. And you're going to learn things about yourself. You're going to learn how patient you are. You're going to learn what kind of interpersonal soft skills you have, if at all. If you don't have any, you're going to really discover that you don't have any. Like patience, for example. If you do have some soft skills, that I think people in Generation X and maybe Boomers take for granted, is that you're going to learn how to deal better with people. As a recruiter you have to deal with people, so the more emotional intelligence you have, the more soft skills you have in dealing with people, the more that will make you a better recruiter. Technologies are great, I'm a big proponent of technology and that kind of stuff, but you can't get away from the people component. After using all the technology in the world, it still comes down to you talking to somebody, alright, so if you don't have those basic interpersonal skills to talk to somebody, you're not going to be a good recruiter. Another reason why I say that is that because I look at some millennials, I don't want to type-cast all millennials, but I know that judging by the millennials who live in my household, they spend a lot of time on machines, right? So, as I call it, so, when I see two teenagers or two young adults sitting on the sofa chatting with each other in the same room (laughs) when you could just you know, say hey how are you doing, they'd rather send a text to each other. That tells me man, it's a skill that's being lost. Matter of fact, if you do a search on DuckDuckGo, my favorite search engine, or Bing, or Google, and do a search for millennials losing interpersonal skills, you'll see a lot of articles, a lot of research around that. The generation is spending a lot of time on chats and emojis and whatnot and their losing, I think and a lot of other people think, based on research that they're losing the basic skill of just talking to someone." Dave Webb 10:43 "Yeah, networking the old fashioned way, and not by just clicking on a thumbs up or a thumbs down or an add me to your network button. So, conversely, you know, out of all the recruiters that you talk to what is the one thing that you see going on that you might suggest that they stop doing immediately?" Jim Stroud 10:59 "That hits a pet peeve of mine (laughs) so I'll go into it. I would love for recruiters to stop using the ATS as a last resort. You know, I've trained a lot of recruiters and a lot of sourcers on different things and when I ask them I say, ""okay, so you have this new rec, what's the first thing you do?"" And invariably, most of them will say, the ones that speak up, they'll say, ""oh, I'll go to LinkedIn, and I'll search here."" Or they always say LinkedIn first, or Google job board, whatever, and it just blows my mind. I say, ""why don't you go into the applicant tracking system and look at the people who have already expressed interest in your company? That would be an easier sell and a quicker time to fill."" Alright, it's like a guy walking into a bar and three pretty girls kiss him on the cheek, right? Instead of talking to those three pretty girls who kiss him on the cheek, he's going to go try to talk in front of all the other women in the room who have paid him no attention. I'm like dude, if you want to get a date, why don't you talk to the three women who just kissed you on your cheek? You're going to have better success! that's the same thing with recruiters, you know, you've got a whole database full of people who said, 'hey, I like you're company, at least I did at one time because I went to the trouble of submitting my resume,' so why not look at them? They'll probably respond to you faster, especially in this age of, this time now where you have such historic lows in unemployment. Deal with the people who have already kissed you on the cheek first." Dave Webb 12:32 "You probably have a couple emails in the ATS. You definitely have a couple phone numbers including some way to text them, texting is a great way to get in touch with passive candidates, allow them to respond while theyíre at another job. And like you said, a good ATS has an engagement platform built into it where even though you might not have ever heard of that candidate before or talked to them, your ATS should be doing a good job of keeping them aware of your company and what's going on with your company while they're on the back burner so to speak. " Jim Stroud 13:01 "Exactly that, exactly that. And one other thing too, again hitting a pet peeve of mine. The resumes in your ATS, they become more valuable with time. You know it also boggles my mind that recruiters, maybe in their defense, maybe they're just so swamped, depending on what organization they're in, they may be working on thirty recs, they may be working on a hundred, just depends on what's going on. But if they're not spending a lot of time in their ATS, you're losing out on resumes, because old resumes are like wine in a sense. So, take for example, let's say I'm looking for a data analyst, or a video game developer, I need people that are hard to find, right? So if you look on LinkedIn, or some other job board, maybe you'll find them, maybe you won't, because they're so popular, they get so much attention, they don't want to put their information out there anymore, so it's hard to find them. But maybe five years ago or three years ago they applied for your company. Of course they don't have the title of data analyst or video game developer at that time because it's three years prior, but why not look at some of these resumes and say, you know what, someone whose a video game developer today, someone whose a senior video game developer today, may have been a junior game developer three years back. So why don't I look at my ATS for people who've already expressed an interest in my company and look for a junior game developer with three years experience and then say, ""hey, what have you been up to? What are you doing now?"" You know? They may be that superstar that you can't find anywhere else because they're a superstar now and they don't have their information out there because they're tired of recruiters calling them." Advertisement 14:39 "RecruiterCast is brought to you by Brightmove, the most innovative applicant tracking system built with the recruiter and candidate in mind. Be sure to check out Brightmove on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn @Brightmove. Visit us on the web at Brightmove.com." Dave Webb 14:55 "I think it's important that recruiters know that the people entering the workforce don't even know how to engage with them, nor do they even know which platforms maybe even to get on for the recruiter to find them. So have you seen that kind of gap between the recruiters and the people entering the workforce and is it growing, shrinking, what are your thoughts on that, Jim?" Jim Stroud 15:14 "I think it's growing a little bit, because a lot of the millennials, again using my own personal case studies, they're more into the gig work kind of a deal, they're not really looking at a traditional job in the way that necessarily I would look at it. They may say you know what, I'll drive an uber, or maybe I'll do an Airbnb with pets. There's this new thing out called Rover, so if you have a house and you already have pets and you're used to pets being in your house then you can do an Airbnb for pets and say, 'hey, next time you're on your holiday trip, bring your pet here by my house and I'll make sure it's fed, I'll walk the dog or whatever I pretty much am boarding your dog in my house,' and so Rover is an app that lets you do that kind of thing. So I see a lot of millennials hustling as I call it so I think that is going to behoove a lot of recruiters to think beyond finding a resume. If they have a job that has, and they have a company culture that is very entrepreneurial where people you know come on the job and they treat it like their business in a sense, then maybe it's in their benefit to search for people who are hustling on Fiverr or Rover or some of these other, Upwork or maybe they're on Amazon Turk doing small things there. People who have that um doing a little bit extra, maybe doing that. I think also would be helpful is to use solutions that are programmatic, you know, programmatic advertising, which is you post a job advertisement to some job board but it doesn't get any attention and after awhile when it doesn't get attention, then that job goes to premium spots on the website and if no attention there, then it goes to Google search engines and it goes to other social media like Facebook, Instagram and so forth. What I'm describing is where I used to work, a company called ClickIQ, did programmatic advertising, it did that kind of thing. They're not the only programmatic advertising platform out there though, there are others out there, JobAdX, RecruitX and so forth and so on. So looking at innovative ways to get the attention of people who could be your candidates I think is a way that recruiters should go. " Jim Stroud 17:36 "Not only that, doing things like content, you know because if they're not looking on job boards, but they do have an interest in whatever, then they're going to maybe do a search on a search engine for information on that particular industry they have an interest in. Maybe they're looking for a video, I know a lot of people go to videos when they have a question about something. So let's say I am a veterinarian student, but I'm not looking for a job because I'm in school, not really thinking about it, but I do a search on can bears catch colds or something, I don't know, Right? So, I go to YouTube and I see a video of a veterinarian explaining how bears can catch colds, you know, brought to you by Company X, and Company X is a great company to work for one day. Won't you click the link in the video description to go to our career section to learn more about us and now here's the answer to your question. Boom. You know, doing stuff like that. When I look at a blog like say TechCrunch for example, it is a leading industry blog about technology, when I go there, I go there because I want to know what's the latest and greatest going on in the world of technology. I see information about the industry, I see interviews of people in the industry, I see advertising. When I look at it one way it's a way of staying in touch with technology, but I could easily look at it a second kind of way and see it as a career site, where if I'm recruiting software developers for example, then no doubt they come to TechCrunch often to keep up with what's going on. I think companies should explore different options where they're creating their own version of a popular blog that's showcasing the industry or different things, you know? Get subscribers, those subscribers would be passive candidates they could share their advertising with of course their advertising being different jobs. Different things like that." Dave Webb 19:36 "The gig economy is interesting and it's totally opposite of probably the way you and I were both taught that work happens. How does that effect things like, maybe someone who's coming out of the gig economy, their not interested in something like a 401K, or their not thinking about retirement, you know, like who was in their early twenties, we were told to, but then we didn't, or I didn't. So how does that job description change to attract people that are kind of been toying in the gig economy and you're trying to recruit them and pull them more over into the full-time, forty hour a week, work for one company, have your benefits type job scenario? " Jim Stroud 20:11 "I think it all revolves around persona marketing, so maybe you test, you interview a few people who are in the demographic that you are trying to attract, you ask them what they like, what they don't like and then you use that to form your job description. Curiously enough I was talking to a company just the other day, they were showcasing some technology, I didn't sign an NDA so I imagine it's okay to talk about them. The company is in New York they're called Brandful, free publicity for them, Brandful, B-R-A-N-D-F-U-L. And so what they do is they do employer brand monitoring. So, essentially let's say you're company X and you want to know what people who work for you are saying about you so that you can perfect or improve your own personal brand. So they'll look at what people are saying about you on social media and get a good sample together and they're able to tell you what people who work for you think about your company or what the impression people have of your company from the prospective of a job seeker. Sort of like a net promoter score on steroids, it's a lot more, from what I can tell, more advanced than what you might see on Glassdoor. Just think of Glassdoor on steroids, that's what they do. So, I would imagine coming future you'll see a lot more companies like that what it will tell you. This is what people really think about your company, and this is the demographic of folks who are applying for your company, so if you want to appeal to them you need to say A,B, and C. That's now and near future, but for people who don't have the big bucks necessarily to pay for that, then I would reach out to people who maybe have applied for the job in your database cause then they have an interest more so in you and then ask them you know, what attracted you to the company. You know, maybe do a survey, saying we want to improve our candidate experience, you know, please fill out this questionnaire, how did you hear about this job, what did you like about this job, what attracts you to the company, that kind of thing. And so do it that way." Dave Webb 22:21 "Well a lot of things you're talking about really have to do with the guessing game that goes on sometimes between the recruiter and the candidate, you know I wonder what this guy's doing now, I wonder if she would be interested in my job. And when I saw your My Perfect Job framework, I thought to myself this is so simplistic and such a great idea because I'm such a huge advocate of just saying what it is you're interested in so that two people can quickly determine if there's a match for a relationship and if not, move on with their lives. Tell us a little bit about how you came up with the idea for the My Perfect Job framework." Jim Stroud 22:52 "Sure, sure, for those that don't know, on my LinkedIn profile there is a link to an article that I posted on LinkedIn called 'My Perfect Job' and on that article is a description of who I am and what I want in a job and it came about because my skillset is so diverse. Although I've done a lot of work in recruiting and sourcing over the last couple decades, I've also produced a lot of videos, a lot of podcasts, prolific speaker, Authored a bunch of different things that I've done and someone looking at my work history would say, 'wow you've done so much with so many different companies and so many different things,' it was hard I think for some recruiters to think okay, what opportunities should I pitch to you? You know because usually like if you're looking for an accountant, you see somebody who's been an accountant pretty much throughout their career. Whereas I've done a lot of recruiting and sourcing, I've done a lot of social media and other stuff as well. So, I did it as a way of saying, 'okay recruiter if you're looking at me let me do you a favor and not cause you to think, just look at this and this is what I want.' And not only is it helpful to recruiters, but it also is helpful to people I network with, business contacts, because everybody knows somebody and as you tell people that you're open to opportunities, they'll say, 'okay what are you looking for?' And you can give them an idea, but they may forget, especially if they don't think of you a certain way. So if you give them a link to and say, 'hey, just check this out if you know somebody who is a head of TA or head of recruiting or HR person, just send them this link and tell them you know you work...' So I made it easier for them to pass these to me this way." Dave Webb 24:36 "I think it's a great idea, because our job advertisements are you know the perfect, what we want the perfect candidate to have for this job and then the recruiters go out and spend a lot of time and inefficiencies looking at someone's resume and guessing what they think they might want to do next and whether their a match for that job based on what they've done in the past and like you said, maybe I've been a senior developer for twenty years I'm ready to move into mid-level management, or maybe I'm ready to quit doing programming altogether and become a fishing boat captain, it's very popular down here in Florida, when you make enough money you can fish for a living and call it a job. Or maybe I want to become a musician and play gigs at the local nightlife spots, so. Well look, I think it's great, I think a lot of people would benefit from saying you know this is what I like to do and you know, be up front. Kind of goes with the territory, you know, talk about what it is you're looking for, how much you're looking to make, whether you're interested in leaving, just don't waste the recruiter's time, be respectful of their time and vice versa with the recruiters talking to the candidates, comes down to partnership and respect a lot of times. " Jim Stroud 25:43 "Definitely, definitely, and it's almost like job seekers have to do this because one thing job seekers don't think about is that the services that their on, they're not always free, you know, LinkedIn is free to an extent, but after awhile, recruiters have to pay to get, you know, deeper information, and more information on folks. Some recruiters have a basic account and they don't always have access to the premium version, so if you have an article listing what you want, the job that you want, then whether or not someone is paying for LinkedIn or not they'll still have access to your article because the content on LinkedIn, outside of the resume stuff is pretty much free." Dave Webb 26:26 "Yeah, and I'm surprised when talking to people around town how many of them don't know that recruiters are out there and their job is to help people find employment, to my knowledge, that's always free to the job seeker. So you know if you're looking for a job and you've come across RecruiterCast, you know, Google for a staffing companies or RPO's in your area and there's some national brands that you'll probably recognize and maybe even some local shops that have more jobs with some smaller businesses in your economy and they can help you know where people are hiring that you might not even be aware of looking at the job boards." Jim Stroud 26:57 "Also, keep in mind the type of recruiter who could be of benefit to you. Right? So If you are of a technical background, then reach, or go on LinkedIn, go other places, but you know, LinkedIn too and look for technical recruiters, and then look at their background to see if they are someone you think would be worth your time. So if I'm a software developer and I look on LinkedIn and I see a recruiter who's presently working for Amazon, prior to that they worked at Microsoft, prior to that they worked for Google or Facebook, and I'm going to say, okay, this person get's what I do cause he's worked for the type of companies I want to work for, this recruiter's worth my time." Advertisement 27:38 "Be sure to check out RecruiterCast on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, at†RecruiterCast." Dave Webb 27:48 "Okay, what a bunch of great information from Jim, and if I could just try to summarize for you like I always do: There's a generational gap there that Jim and I have both seen between recruiters and people just entering the workforce, and we believe it's the responsibility of both parties to bridge that gap and make it smaller. If you don't do anything, it will get bigger. People, communicate, go look someone in the eye and shake their hand or pat them on the back, just have a conversation. You never know when email is out or phone systems are down or there's no signal. Think of all of the productivity and economic gain and jobs lost because technology wasn't working for a few seconds. Let's get rid of that. Make yourself stand out. That doesn't require any money on your part. Jim said volunteer, social responsibility, community service, help people and help yourself at the same time. It just seems like a no-brainer. And lastly, I love Jim's My Perfect Job framework. I love it because it's intentional. How many of us are so comfortable just sitting around and waiting for something good to happen, I know I do it all the time, because it's easy. But being intentional and going after what you want, that's how you get results, and Jim's just summarized it in this great program. All you have to do is say what it is that you want to do. Help the recruiter help you. The recruiter is there to help you find your perfect job and the My Perfect Job framework can certainly help the recruiter do that for you. I'll leave you with this, the word intentional really stuck out to me in this episode and as my friend Jimmy likes to say, 'if you're playing golf, don't aim for the green the best you can do is hit the green. Aim for the stick, cause you never know, you might surprise yourself and knock it in the hole because you're trying to' and I'm pretty sure Jimmy stole that quote from Harvey Penick, but in case I paraphrased it wrong, we'll give Jimmy credit for it." Dave Webb 29:41 "What was your most awkward interview and why? And it can be one you were giving, one that you were the interviewee for." Jim Stroud 29:48 "When I applied for work for MCI, it was awkward because I didn't know what the job was, I didn't know how to do it, and I was pretty much faking it until I make it. So interviewing for a job which I wasn't quite sure what I would be doing was more than a bit awkward. Once I figured it out I was able to impress them with my ingenuity then it was good, but at the time it was quite awkward because I didn't really know what to say (Laughs) because I didn't really know what the job was about." Dave Webb 30:20 "This is what we call our hotseat question where we've taken some job descriptions off the internet and you get to guess what the job title is. Okay, so I've got just one for you. Alright so, someone posted a job and their description was that they wanted someone to quote 'be a pro amateur always wading into areas that I know hardly anything about.' So, be a pro amateur always wading into areas that most people hardly know anything about." Jim Stroud 30:53 UhhhhÖ. I'm going to guess that they are a reporter for a blog focused on some particular industry. Dave Webb 31:05 "I'm going to give you credit for that, it's a social media expert." Jim Stroud 31:09 Woo-Woo! Dave Webb 31:09 Social Media blog and then expert being the something they know something about. I'm giving you that one. That was a hard one. Jim Stroud 31:17 Sweet! Dave Webb 31:19 "Um, as we wrap up here, what are the top three pieces of advice or things that you would like to share with either job seekers or recruiters?" Jim Stroud 31:27 "Some takeaways I would say is know what you want, what you don't want, what you don't want and what you will accept. Or rather what you will settle for. So if you know what you want, what you don't want, and what you will settle for that will help you in your career decisions. you know, there's a difference between looking for an opportunity to advance your career and looking for an opportunity to pay some bills. You know, if you are looking if you take a retail job then that's just you know, depending on your career decisions, that could just be a job to pay the bills, but if you want to be a VP of something one day then maybe an opportunity to be a retail buyer is more career centric, you know. So it's like have, you have two different mind-sets when you're looking for work, career mind-set and survival mind-set. That's what I'm trying to say. So in either case, if you know what you want, what you will not accept, and what you will settle for that will help you with your salary negotiations, it'll help you decide which jobs to move forward on. Also what I would suggest is if you're in a position where you're not employed, now is a good time to be bold in what you do, in terms of this I'm going to give you one quick example if I can. I mentioned earlier that I was open to opportunities and right now I'm averaging about probably two to three interviews a week, talking to a lot of people. Part of the reason for that is because I have been promoting myself with content. So I mentioned how I have done a lot with sourcing and recruiting I created a SlideShare called 'How to Find Female Software Developers', basically it's how to find female software developers. And I posted it on LinkedIn and on blog and a few other places. People go there for the content because they're interested in how to find female software developers because that's a big problem that a lot of people have and when they do they see inside of the SlideShare a picture of me going 'hey, I'm Jim open to opportunities, come check me out'. And a fortunate accident is that someone complained, ha, about my presentation because one of the methods that I mentioned in my presentation was using image search. " Jim Stroud 33:47 "So if someone was looking for females and one way to do an image search and reach out as someone who has the skills who appeared to be female, you know, and someone thought that was creepy, I guess or whatever, and so I defended it which brought about a back and forth in the comments and the way LinkedIn's algorithm works the more someone likes something or comments on it, the more LinkedIn will keep it up in people's newsfeeds. So it was getting more and more attention, so having it slightly controversial in that regard brought more attention to it so more people who were paying attention to it were people who were in the recruiting space or they were executives for a company where hiring female software developers was of interest to them. So by having a little bit of controversy around it, it brought more attention to my presentation, thereby making me more to the attention to potential employers at the same time. So, if I were working with somebody, I don't know if that would have been a good thing to be as controversial, right now, it's pretty good." Dave Webb 34:54 "For people who want to know more about you, and maybe contact you about some job offers or some of your services, how's the best way for them to get in touch with you?" Jim Stroud 35:02 "Sure, the best way to catch me is at my website, Jimstroud.com, that's J-I-M-S-T-R-O-U-D.com. And of course there's always LinkedIn. I'm there as well. If you go to my blog you'll see my videos, my podcast, my articles, things like that. You'll also see my resume, which is also posted on Jimstroud.com" Dave Webb 35:25 "So much great information from this episode, a huge thanks to Jim Stroud for talking with us today. I told you he was a seasoned pro, didn't I? Fabulous conversationalist and just an awesome guy. Lots of helpful info for you to take and apply to your daily lives, and as a recruiter, job seeker, or all around good person. Remember hit us up on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and the Facebook @Recruitercast. Be sure to check out our website, recruitercast.com, and click on any of the forms that we have on the website, you can submit questions, request guests, and most importantly just contact us, let us know if you're liking or not liking the podcast. Call us. " Robotic voice 36:06 904-525-8134. Dave Webb 36:11 "As Always, I'm your host, Dave Webb, thank you very much for listening and happy recruiting to you." Dave Webb 36:16 "RecruiterCast is an original production, produced and recorded in St Augustine Beach, Florida and is hosted by me, Dave Webb. †Our Executive Producers are Andrew Seward and Heidi Green. Original music by Dave Webb and Andrew Seward."